The interview was unfolding exactly as Dr Zahi Hawass had intended, right up until one question changed everything.
The famed Egyptologist, whom Joe Rogan once dubbed his ‘worst guest ever’ after a notoriously combative podcast appearance, had agreed to an exclusive interview with The Daily Mail to promote his new documentary, ‘The Man with the Hat.’
The film chronicles his storied career and teases what he described as the discovery of a previously unknown pyramid and four tunnels underneath the Great Sphinx.
‘I think the pyramid was for a king named Huni,’ Hawass said. ‘That is the only king in the Old Kingdom who has not been found.’ The documentary will be released on January 20.
But when asked about the controversial claims of structures beneath Giza, Hawass’s mood shifted almost instantly, from confident authority to visible irritation.
In March 2025, a team of Italian researchers released satellite images that appeared to show massive vertical shafts plunging more than 2,000 feet beneath the Khafre pyramid, one of the three iconic structures on the Giza plateau.
The Giza complex consists of three pyramids, Khufu, Khafre and Menkaure, and the Great Sphinx. Each pyramid was built in the name of a pharaoh around 4,500 years ago.
‘If you make a discovery, you cannot announce it without discussing it with Egyptologists,’ Hawass said, insisting that such claims violate what he called ‘a law for everyone.’
At the mention of the Italian researchers’ satellite images, which captured enormous shafts beneath the Giza Plateau, Hawass’s tone hardened. ‘Completely wrong,’ and with that, he slammed the door on the conversation.
With the impatience of a man who believed the matter had been settled, he delivered the final dismissal. ‘I think you asked all the questions,’ Hawass said. ‘There are no more questions that you can ask now.’
Famed Egyptologist Dr Zahi Hawass sat down with Daily Mail to discuss his new documentary, but the conversation took a turn when another discovery was brought up
Rogan’s podcast suffered a similar dramatic turn when he asked Hawass about the discovery from the Italian researchers.
Hawass joined Rogan in May 2025 to promote his new book and discuss recent developments in Egyptology.
While the conversation began cordially, things shifted when Rogan brought up the satellite images.
‘I investigated this,’ Hawass said firmly. ‘No one can tell you this is accurate. I asked every person who knows about radar and ultrasound, everyone who works with me. They said, ‘This is bulls***. It cannot happen at all.’
Rogan then pressed him: ‘Do you understand the technology behind the satellite imaging?’ Hawass admitted he did not. ‘I’m not a scientist,’ he said.
Speaking with football star Aaron Rodgers a week later, Rogan said: ‘That might have been the worst podcast I have ever done, but maybe a good one too.
‘Just to see this close-minded fellow that’s been in charge of gatekeeping all the knowledge about Egypt.’
The showdown with Daily Mail came after Hawass raised his own Sphinx excavations, insisting there was ‘something hidden underneath’ the iconic structure.
‘The Sphinx is solid rock,’ he told The Daily Mail. ‘We have been excavating, and I found four tunnels inside the Sphinx. But all the tunnels that have been found until now were opened by people in 500 BC.’
Daily Mail then steered the conversation toward the Italian team’s sensational claims of massive shafts beneath the Sphinx.
Daily Mail asked Hawass his take on the possible discovery of shafts beneath the Giza Plateau, which was announced by Italian researchers in March 2025. Here are scans of what the shafts under the hafre Pyramid
‘Speaking about things that are underneath the Sphinx, I know you’ve been involved in this discussion about the possibility or claims that there are structures beneath the Giza plateau,’ the interviewer began, only for Hawass to interrupt and end the line of questioning.
‘There were two Italians, and they used topographic radar,’ the Egyptologist said, referring to Filippo Biondi and Armando Mei.
‘They claim it reaches more than 1,000 feet down to a city. But any scientist who understands tomographic radar knows it only reaches about 60 feet. Their theory is completely wrong.’
Then, as if dismissing the entire field of speculation as childish fantasy, Hawass mocked the idea that anything could exist at that depth at all.
‘Even if you bring aliens to work under the Sphinx,’ he said, ‘they will not be able to do that.’
Researchers believe there are other structures reaching more than 4,000 feet below the surface. The scans captured structures extend along the northern side with a tuning fork shape
When pressed on whether he had spoken to the Italian team, Hawass said he had not, and that he did not need to.
He argued that if they were ‘good scientists,’ they would have contacted Egyptian authorities before going public.
He repeatedly returned to the same point: Egyptologists must be consulted before any claims are made, and the data must be shared with the Egyptian government first.
Hawass reiterated his main technical critique: the scans simply could not penetrate that far.
Filippo Biondi (left), Armando Mei (center) and Corrado Malanga took the world by storm when they announced the discovery of shafts and chambers more than 2,000 feet below the surface.
Hawass slammed the team for not coming to him with their discovery below Egypt’s Giza pyramids
‘Tomographic radar can show only 15 meters under the ground, not 600 feet,’ he said.
Daily Mail’s Stacy Liberatore interviewed Zahi Hawass
Biondi, who specializes in radar technology, told Daily Mail: ‘Most [people are] convinced that we are using radar to scan below the earth [and] that is completely false.’
He explained that the radar waves were not used to ‘see’ underground directly, but were instead analyzed for Doppler centroid abnormalities, shifts or distortions in the frequency of the returned signal that can indicate underground structures or changes.
Biondi added that the team deployed Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR), a remote-sensing technique that uses radar pulses from satellites to create high-resolution images of the Earth’s surface.
SAR satellites orbit roughly 372 miles above the ground, and they build detailed imagery by combining multiple radar ‘pings’ as the satellite moves.
By analyzing Doppler anomalies in the synthetic radar data, the Italian researchers said they can extract acoustic information from the Earth, similar to how a microphone captures sound waves.
‘With a historical record of the Earth’s acoustic data, we can apply a technique called tomographic inversion, which is based on the Fourier transform,’ Biondi said.
‘This allows us to create detailed scans of subsurface structures.’
Daily Mail attempted to ask Hawass about the scans showing giant shafts descending from the three Giza pyramids and the Great Sphinx, but was again abruptly cut short.
‘I told you tomographic radar can show only 49 feet under the ground, not 600 feet under the ground,’ the Egyptologist said harshly.
